Female leadership in the arts

A conversation with Francesca Zambello, Artistic Director of Washington National Opera, and director of Aida at Lyric Opera of Chicago; Elizabeth "Liza" Yntema, Philanthropist and President & Founder of the Dance Data Project (as well as the sponsor of Aida choreographer Jessica Lang); and Elizabeth Hurley, Interim General Director, Lyric Opera of Chicago.

Female leadership in the arts is hardly a new topic, but an article in the New York Times this past fall, reporting on an Australian study about the lack of female leadership in creative roles at major opera companies, got a lot of conversations started. These three executives carved out some time to keep talking, and here share insights about what they've seen in their substantial careers. They each wear a daunting variety of professional hats, on any given day, and their multifaceted experience shines through in this candid conversation — about progress, patience, pipelines, and the profound ways improved gender parity might not only yield more exciting work on the world's stages, but even support the fiscal health of arts organizations.

LYRIC
The study covered in the Times article noted that, from 2005 to 2021, 95 percent of the conductors at the 11 largest opera companies were male. Such a breathtaking imbalance — does that reckoning seem to represent the industry as a whole?

ELIZABETH HURLEY
I think the Met had its first female conductor — Susanna Mälkki — only about seven years ago. And previously it was unusual at Lyric but we've seen quite a number of female conductors on the podium in the last few years. There are so many women now having really terrific careers. Our conductor for Cinderella, Yi-Chen Lin, obviously, and Keri-Lynn Wilson, who is all over the world, are just two quick examples.

FRANCESCA ZAMBELLO
Elizabeth, I hate to correct you — the Met did have one female conductor before that —Sarah Caldwell. Once. It was La Traviata, in 1976.

HURLEY
You're right.

ZAMBELLO
But just to really answer the question: I don't think it's in the last 15 years. I think it's in the last 150 years.

LYRIC
Is it fair to say that the last four or five years have been different?

HURLEY
I think Lyric has made a concerted effort over the past five or six years to seek out women for the podium and for other leadership roles. I don't make those kinds of hiring decisions here, and our conversations have been around all kinds of diversity. But I do feel there's been an effort to engage women on the podium.

ELIZABETH YNTEMA
I'm going to speak from the dance world, which is clearly not the same, but we're adjacent. The statistics sound about right to me. What I think is different is that opera and classical music generally have been more forthright in analyzing the problem — in using data and producing reports and addressing it than the dance world. One of our advisory council members, a distinguished professor of dance history, says that dance has a history of anti-intellectualism and there's a real pushback against what Dance Data Project (DDP) does.

LYRIC
Who is doing data work in these spaces?

YNTEMA
At DDP, we promote gender equity in the dance industry, including but not limited to ballet companies, by providing metrics-based analyses. The American Association of Museum Directors (AAMD) recently did a phenomenal study led by the female head of the New Museum in New York. And then, critically, they published a follow up. The opera world is bad, conducting is bad, but the numbers on who runs major museums are also pretty terrible. The big sort of wonderful thing that happened recently, which I never thought we'd see, is that a woman is now running the Louvre Museum.

LYRIC
We've been talking about "artistic" positions mostly — are the numbers similar in administration?

HURLEY
Being on the administrative side in the performing arts for much of my career, I see many, many more women coming into positions of leadership. When I first was a young fundraiser at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, it was men on the podium, men in the top job, men in the CFO and Chief Development Officer roles. But I do think that's changed quite a bit. Francesca is artistic director of Washington National Opera, Deborah Rutter runs the Kennedy Center — before that she was president of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. Lyric actually was ahead of the curve on this for many years, having been founded by Carol Fox who was followed by Ardis Krainik. But Lyric didn't have a woman as board chair until Sylvia Neil who became chair five years ago. What have you observed, Francesca?

ZAMBELLO
Well, 14 years ago, when I first started running the Glimmerglass Festival — that company's called a "Level Two" in our opera world — there were very few women in those meetings, and now, of course, there are a lot more women, but they mostly are running smaller organizations. It's not new. This situation happens because hiring generally has been done by the chairman of the board, who usually has been a man. It's a self-perpetuating cycle that now is certainly cracked open.

YNTEMA
I wish donors were more activist and more insistent. I actually use a hashtag: #askbeforeyougive. I have what I call my "cubicles and windows test." When you go into a performing arts organization or a museum, in the middle will be a bunch of bright, young, usually white young women working in tiny spaces with zero privacy. As you move outward to where there are windows, and particularly if there's a corner office, it's much more likely to be male, middle-aged. So, when I see celebrations of, 'Our staff is 80% female,' I want to know which jobs.

ZAMBELLO
It used to be that the head of the trustees, and the people who write about these things, held the keys much more. As women began to filter in — whether they were board members who spoke up, or board members who made their own money instead of being on a board because of their husband's finances, and so on — that's what really began to have an impact in administration.

YNTEMA
Traditionally, at least in the dance world, there would be a woman, whether head of the Board, or an executive director, who was there to promote a male artistic vision. Today, there are far more female executive directors, and they do have salary parity with men. What is still unusual, sadly, is to find a female resident choreographer or a female artistic director who is charting the artistic course. The person with the vision. Do I see advances? Yes. Slowly. Where I do see change is women like Francesca who seek out and support other female creatives in a systematic way. Francesca is generous and strategic in promoting and encouraging diverse voices.

ZAMBELLO
My personal mandate, first at Glimmerglass and then at WNO, was gender parity for every position. Conducting, composing, choreographing, designing, directing, librettists. And every hire in administration: gender parity and racial parity. I just said, 'That's what it is,' to the staff. And if we don't think we can do it, then we need to go teach the people how to do it. Because there have been times where we've placed people in positions that are above what they can do, and I don't think any of us want that to happen.

YNTEMA
Absolutely! It does mean you have an obligation to raise others up with you. We always hear about pipeline issues. I don't think it's a pipeline; I think it's missing rungs. Women just cannot, overall, get the big commissions, the lucrative and prestigious full evening work. Instead, they are relegated to short pieces, part of a mixed rep, or a second company. Part of what I'm trying to do, not just in my work for Dance Data Project, but in my own giving, is to figure out where those missing rungs are — what barriers are there to women advancing to the next stage in their creative career. An example: At Jacob's Pillow [a dance festival and school in Massachusetts], I've made a three-year commitment to support care costs for a young female choreographer either leaving her kids at home, because they may be more comfortable that way, or for a mom bringing a baby with her. Women miss out on so many opportunities because they can't find childcare, or it's too expensive, or wherever they're performing doesn't provide facilities — where the U.S. lags well behind the rest of the world, by the way.

LYRIC
I see — you're placing in a new support. And speaking of support, is there a revenue case to be made here?

ZAMBELLO
I think it's always about how you market. And nowadays we are much more into micro-marketing. We can't say, 'Oh, let's send out a subscription brochure and everybody's going to subscribe.' So there are certain audiences we target, whether it's a Hispanic audience, a Black audience — or an audience that's, for instance, supportive of women. I've definitely seen positive impact. It doesn't happen overnight. I mean, I feel like I've been doing this for a decade and a half. I'm always reminding people: In most of the stories, a woman is the protagonist. So whether it's Nutcracker, Swan Lake, La Traviata, mostly there's a woman at the core, which is why I often say, particularly to donors, why wouldn't we want to have a female creative team? It's not to say that a male creative team can't tell that story, but a woman's perspective might help broaden an audience's understanding and bring in a newer audience.

HURLEY
I think audiences want to see themselves and their culture and their stories represented at the core of any artistic organization. Not over to the side, but on the main stage.

YNTEMA
Francesca knows that when you hire a director or a choreographer, you are basically hiring an economic generator. That person controls many jobs. Sadly, what you see again and again, even from the younger generation of dance choreographers, is they hire all-male teams, the identical eight or nine guys. Apparently, these big name choreographers only feel comfortable working with the same group of dudes. So guess what? That locks brilliant female creatives out of big productions that have major marketing budgets. These productions, of course, are more likely to be toured and placed in the permanent repertory. There is an analogy here to the world of Hollywood. Women make 90 percent of the documentaries, but the suits claim that women can't lead a major franchise. Similarly, it seems, we can't have a woman, or a person of color, run the production for Giselle, or especially The Nutcracker, because "we need to make money" on that. And I would say, first of all, of course they can, if it's the right production. Hello, Barbie?! Sadly, I see female choreographers being stripped of even guaranteed resources. Are you giving the choreographer, the assistant, the help she needs? How about the dancers she is requesting, and realistic blocks of rehearsal time — not just 30 minutes at the end of the day. Are you budgeting for new costumes? Too often what we find is somebody will get a small commission and then there's no infrastructure or real backing. And then, you hear, "Well, we tried, but it didn't sell." So to Francesca's earlier point, there's not a quick fix. It's decades of work. Which is why I am so excited about Aida.

ZAMBELLO
I am too. I first hired Jessica Lang over a decade ago because I called the woman who was at that point the executive director of American Ballet Theater and said, 'I want to know who is the smartest young female choreographer.' That's what you have to do now. You have to find the next track. Of course, as a director, I too want to work with my teams, but I also want to always make room for one new person. That's how you get better as an artist. Don't always go with your old slippers.

YNTEMA
I think you're bringing up a really important point, because at least in the dance world — I don't know if it's true in opera, but I would guess it is — everybody's really busy, so when artistic directors start calling around, asking for or recommending people, very often male artistic directors recommend the three or four people they know. Their buddies. They don't do what you do, which is be strategic and thoughtful, recommending new voices.

LYRIC
Again back to business. Can that lead to new donors?

HURLEY
Fire Shut Up in My Bones and Champion, both by Terence Blanchard, attracted a lot of support — from people who like new work, and who want to support new stories with modern themes. While the works did not attract a lot of new philanthropic support, we saw many new audience members, which is also an important goal. We don't expect those new to Lyric to immediately begin behaving like board members who have been part of the organization for a long time. Our job is to continue to engage new audience members.

YNTEMA
I will also note Annabelle Lopez Ochoa's recent full length premiere at Atlanta Ballet, Coco Chanel — The Life of a Fashion Icon, beating all box office expectations. Tamara Rojo, the new Artistic Director of San Francisco Ballet, opened this season with a highly experimental full length by Aszure Barton, Mere Mortals, which has sold out and is going into a second run. Rojo is breaking down traditional barriers with modern dance, offering an SFB sponsored choreographic institute — and for her innovation and daring, pulled in a record-breaking $60 million donation from an anonymous female donor. There is so much untapped wealth and interest for something new, not just more of the same.

HURLEY
You've got to do it over and over and over again.

YNTEMA
Absolutely. Both you and Francesca have made the point about persistence. It reminds me very much of people who want to see quarterly returns for a business instead of investing in R&D. We were about a year in with DDP, and a reporter asked, "What's your impact?" And I was a bit stunned. Think about social justice and advocacy movements. Martin Luther King didn't wake up one day and all of sudden we had the Montgomery bus boycott (which by the way was organized by women).

LYRIC
That leads me to ask about the future. It seems like perhaps we're on a good trend towards more parity and more equity. Do you see that continuing, and how can we support it?

HURLEY
In general in the world at this moment? I don't think this is a particularly friendly time for women. I'm thinking politically and I believe in many ways, women are in a worse place than we were 40 years ago. Having said that, I am optimistic in terms of continuing opportunities for leadership for women, particularly in the arts, because many of us are hiring and mentoring women. I look back on my career and I am really proud of so many of the young women I hired years ago and what they're doing. They're running organizations. They're at the top of their field, not just in the arts. And I'm proud to have had a small part in recognizing their talent and helping them to achieve. Politically, I think it's a pretty tough time. But setting all that aside, I think many of us have laid important groundwork.

ZAMBELLO
Elizabeth put it very succinctly. I think we're in a terrible time politically, and I think women are taking huge steps backwards, and we're going to have to fight for our basic rights again. For all of us, the arts are a bridge. Arts are a way to communicate with people who may not think like we do, and we just have to keep fighting that good fight and using art to communicate, because often it seems that words are not doing so. The arts have survived since the Greeks, and let's hope that they will carry on. We are working in two areas that engage very actively because they're live performance. It's not the visual arts, it's not film. We can pivot very quickly and work in many ways to reach out to people. So I'm going to be optimistic and keep fighting.

YNTEMA
I think we three share some of the same perspective. I was much more hopeful in the 80s. So you persevere. Things take a while. What has been an unexpected delight for me, and not something I thought about when I started DDP, is that I have created a talent incubator for young women. Girls who dance but love physics, who do dance and computer coding and get As in AP Chemistry. This is just so fun — I'm hearing over and over that even by listing our team members and what they do on our website, we're influencing and inspiring young women worldwide. The thing is for us to support each other and celebrate each other's successes!